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Just a question

Nitox Dec 3, 2016

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  1. Nitox

    Nitox Member

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    So who here belives the moonlanding was a hoax? just a question.
     
  2. Rakiya

    Rakiya Member

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    I'm personally not too invested in the conspiracy, but if I was asked to take a position, I suppose I'd side with the people calling foul play.
    Not an expert on the matter, nor have I sat down and read any proper arguments... but the flag fluttering was comical, and typical representation of a symbolic event.
    More notably though, it's a bit hard to believe that the US had the capability to put man on the moon all those years ago, and yet hasn't succeeded in doing so again despite the advances in technology. I suppose one could argue that they haven't really been trying (false), but I'm pretty sure other countries would be interested in traveling to the moon... and again, I'm pretty sure their technology and understanding is far more advanced than what the US had back then.
     
  3. ViciousCircle

    ViciousCircle Member

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    Even bush did 9/11 makes more sense than that.
     
  4. Skytech

    Skytech Active Member

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    A stiffened material vibrating in a microgravity 'fluttering'? Hardly.

    I'm probably one of the few on this forum that was alive and witnessed the space program up to the lunar landings. The 50s and 60s was a time of SCIENCE and national pride and excitement and an urging to compete against a dangerous and real threat in the form of Russia. Science in general was chugging away for decades at exponential growth without people saying it should have been impossible. We didn't think space science was impossible either except a few who weren't on board the spacecraft that touched down or stepped on the moon somehow doubt such as task is impossible and HAD to be faked because a movie said so. I was also around during the Nixon administration when we heard the space program was too expensive and was slashed. Thanks to politicians with ulterior motives for our tax dollars, we lose our drive to go on for a decade when somehow some people with drive convinced us we needed to get back into space. It became more show and utilitarian during the space shuttle era but it did show we could regularly work in space. Now that we somehow can spend multi-billions (trillions) to fight useless wars since the first Iraq War, amazing we no longer have enough to explore our solar system but with a few relatively cheap drones and exactly what DOES the Liberty space station do? I find that more conspiratorial.
     
  5. Rakiya

    Rakiya Member

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    As I initially said, I'm not an expert on the matter, and I'm not really qualified to go into specifics.
    The topic asked for an overall impression, and I find it quite implausible to believe that man landed on the moon all those years ago, and has nothing to prove for it than a rocket taking off, and snippet videos that a group of teenagers could now recreate.

    Frankly, I have a hard time believing unsupported claims when it comes to governments, and that's all the more true when it comes to the US, which has consistently proven that they are shady, manipulative, and quite bluntly dishonest.

    The biggest issue with your argument though Skytech is that you're claiming it was possible back in the days.
    Yet, for some reason we can't seem to replicate the scenario now (despite advancements in technology).
    And arguing that slashed funding stagnated progress isn't really valid as a re-enactment should be able to do with the same technology that was already developed.
     
  6. Skytech

    Skytech Active Member

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    Wow, that's like saying no one has really been to the Antarctic and it's all faked film footage shot in the top of Canada by a consortium of the world's governments and all the people who claim to go there are bribed, actors or brainwashed. No ne really goes to the Antarctic because it's just a lot of useless ice.

    Science is quite capable flying us to the moon and elsewhere though the farther you go the more difficult and expensive it is. What prevents us from going back or anywhere far from near orbit is the stumbling blocks of politics and business. They who control the purse strings control space or the lack thereof. That goes for the entire world since no one shows real initiative to go back.
     
  7. Nitox

    Nitox Member

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    well one thing, if the question of a faked moon-landing got buzz pissed enough to punch a cameraman, then ima believe buzz .-.
     
  8. Rakiya

    Rakiya Member

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    Seriously? If you're going to make a comparison, at least make it a reasonable one.
    First and foremost the Antarctic is not just a heap of useless ice.
    That's like claiming that the moon is nothing more than a floating chunk of rock in the sky.

    Unlike the moon landing's a fair number of people from a diverse range of backgrounds have traveled there, the science behind getting there is consistent and workable. In contrast the moon landings are accomplished by a single organization, who can't explain why modern science can't get us there (when it could in the past).

    I find it rather conceitedly naive to state that politics and business is the sole reason behind a lack of further expeditions, but if that's what you're inclined to believe, I suppose there's little point in arguing with someone who's stuck living in the fantasic 'good ol' days'.
     
  9. White Timberwolf

    White Timberwolf dddd

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    Rakiya, the moon landings haven't been done because there simply isn't a reason to have a sustained business or military reason to continually send craft back to the moon. I'm not denying that the bumble-derp scientists of now are idiots, but that's just a limited excuse. If there was some superbly valuable mineral or usage to being on the moon that a few of these HAHO drones can't do, then we probably would be scrambling our asses right back up there and plunking it. As it is there's just no reason, so no one really tries to recreate something that we, at the current time at least, don't need to do.

    EDIT: HAHO is military lingo for High Altitude High Orbit.
     
  10. Skytech

    Skytech Active Member

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    So, not receiving money to go back to the moon because of politics is less believable than spending resources to elaborately fake a moon landing for unknown reasons by unknown entities and somehow getting everyone in NASA and other related agencies to go along with it for decades.
     
  11. crypto

    crypto Active Member

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    There is no evidence to show that the moon landing is a hoax. There were moon landings after the first one and they placed mirrors on the moon that we can reflect lasers off of.
     
  12. Rakiya

    Rakiya Member

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    @crypto
    You're probably right in saying that there's no evidence to prove that the moon landings were a hoax. But I'm curious as to why there's an assumption that there's a need to? I mean, the onus of evidence should be on the side that's claiming that an actual feat was accomplished. As it stands, I can't really see any compelling evidence to indicate that the moon landings were real or faked.
    Again, if the US had a squeaky clean record I'd be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. But for every piece of 'evidence' that comes out, there's seemingly an equal number of counter claims.

    @White Timberwolf
    Although I find it quite difficult to believe that there is absolutely no value to be found on the moon, I don't really agree with what you're saying as a whole. First and foremost, traveling to the moon could put this topic to rest once and for all. Considering how space-travel is now able to send drones off to Mars, I'd think it'd be pretty easy to send a drone up to collect some sort of evidence that man landed on the moon.

    Photographic recordings have significantly improved since the "moon-landing' years, and a few modern additions from the surface of the moon would definitely hold some form of value. Furthermore it's irrelevant whether the 'bumble-derp scientists' of the modern world are capable or not. Whatever the case, technology has improved since that era, and sending an expedition to the moon should be a notably cheaper exercise. Note; I'll admit that it'll still be costly though.

    As for recreation? I'm sure that there's several countries in the world that would like to place one of their people on the moon.
    The only issue is that they can't figure out how, and I find it hard to believe that the US has managed to unlock and conceal some magic trick all these years.
     
  13. crypto

    crypto Active Member

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    @Rakiya
    You claimed that the moon landings are a hoax, therefore the burden of proof is on your claim. The burden of evidence is on the person making the positive claim. I just stated that there is no evidence to support your claim.

    Are there other conspiracy theories that you also like to follow, such as the flat earth theory, climate change denial or holocaust denial? May I ask if you subscribe to any major religion or see yourself as an agnostic? Do you believe in Astrology or psychics?

    Technology has improved and we've sent tons of satellites into orbit and probes to distant planets, even escaping the planetary solar system. We have landed a rover on the surface of Mars. Do you believe that the Mars rover is also a hoax?

    Why should NASA care to put this topic to rest, just to appease a handful of naysayers? Besides, saying sending another mission to the moon to "put it to rest" is like saying, let's have another holocaust to put holocaust denial to rest. It solves nothing and those who subscribe to conspiracy theories would likely continue to deny it anyway.

    Everything you present is weak speculation. You just make vague assumptions that have no logical backing. How about you present something substantive that builds upon truth rather than personal opinion and beliefs?

    Taken from wikipedia "Since the late 2000s, high-definition photos taken by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) of the Apollo landing sites have captured the lander modules and the tracks left by the astronauts.[2][3] In 2012, images were released showing five of the six Apollo missions' American flags erected on the Moon still standing; the exception is that of Apollo 11, which has lain on the lunar surface since being accidentally blown over by the takeoff rocket's exhaust.[4][5]"

    Here is the full gallery of pictures taken by the LRO.
    http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc_browse

    Here is a complete debunking of all the "evidence" conspiracy theorists present: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/ConspiracyTheoryDidWeGototheMoon.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  14. PancakeBunny

    PancakeBunny New Member

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    Weelllll, I have an opinion or two about this topic much like anyone else. I agree what Crypto said that the burden of evidence is on the person making the positive claim. But what I don't agree on is who needs to prove things; I think the ones that need to supply the evidence are the people who claim that man landed on the moon.
    But, as far as I can see, it's pretty much all 'NASA' based evidence as to that man landed on the moon, and the other side going; "Man did not land on the moon." Yet, the only thing people seem to hear everyone say is; "Man did not land on the moon."

    This video here, explains things pretty well on what I see when I read through this thread
     
    crypto and Rakiya like this.
  15. Rakiya

    Rakiya Member

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    Uhh yeah, that's kind of the point.
    If you haven't noticed, "We landed on the moon" is the "Positive Claim" xD

    But that aside, I'm going to pretend you didn't just ask me for 'logical backing'
    .... And then quote wikipedia. Which cites NASA articles.
    "NASA said, NASA did what NASA claims to have done." is hardly evidence, furthermore those images are kind of grainy and piss-poor; failing to prove anything really. The argument "Why should NASA have to prove anything?" is equally humorous, but I suppose NASA's role is to convince the American populace, and they're doing a pretty good job there.
    To be honest it kind of reminds me of Bush's diagram on the Weapons of Mass Destruction that the US saved the world from.
    *Salutes*

    I've stated from the very start that I'm basing my believes of personal speculation, so it's funny that you bring that up.
    Say no more though, you holiness hath convince this humbly uneducated peasant. You clearly understand rocket science, and the workings of the universe. Professor Crypto, my hat goes off to your wiki-powers.
     
  16. crypto

    crypto Active Member

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    The moon landing is a hoax is also a positive claim, the one that you made. However, your claim is the one lacking any sources or logical arguments. You only present speculation and unfounded opinions, as you have said. Its also not surprising that you have stooped to ad hominem attacks instead of backing up your claim with any solid reasoning or evidence.

    So tell me, if it's not up to NASA to offer up evidence to support their claims, then who is it up to? Is the evidence provided by the people who went to Antarctica lacking credibility because they are the ones who made the claim? Saying that images of the moon's surface from high orbit are "piss poor" is exactly what one should expect from an "uneducated peasant." However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to read articles or look at pictures. It only takes an interested mind. However, I find it amusing that, despite admitting to having no knowledge on the topic, you continue to defend the position for no reason other than the desire to be right. I, however, would be happy to receive and accept evidence that my position is incorrect. I like to remain honest and open-minded.

    Also, Wikipedia is a credible source of information when they have cited sources and you check that the sources are credible. The argument that Wikipedia is a poor source of information is garbage. When it comes to serious scientific articles Wikipedia blocks random people from making edits. Wikipedia is very diligent in ensuring that certain articles are only edited by credible people. Are you arguing that you never use Wikipedia to look up information about anything? I dare you to find a scientific or historical article on Wikipedia with false claims and then present counter evidence. I can definitely understand if you are too lazy, don't care or desire to remain willfully ignorant. Its easier to take the road of ignorance and pat yourself on the back.

    Feel free to continue to respond and I will continue to attempt to sway you to my side of the argument with documented evidence. I will always accept interested minds and continue to educate. I do not claim to understand everything, but I do have a strong interest in science, learning and the pursuit of truth. I only serve to gain more knowledge from those willing to educate or re-educate.
     
  17. crypto

    crypto Active Member

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    Thank you for showing me that video. He is so hilarious, I like the Truth About Conspiracy Theories interview.
     
  18. Boarders

    Boarders New Member

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    Entertaining on what one would hope to be more logical and less beating each other with their opinions. On both sides. I will say I do believe that the moon landing happened. Despite that I find it humorous that a topic such as this that has little practical application receives such vehement arbitration for and against.

    Understanding that time of US culture, the more popular and heard of in the media, were those few that accomplished and succeeded at their ventures. that partly being because the crippling cost to the average family of producing and promoting media. Today everyone has the opportunity to publish information and share stories despite their importance and validity. That fact causes, in personal lives, either crippling distraction, or progressive connection. With the influx of information and promotions of all varieties, it becomes increasingly difficult to sort through what is real and false. which gives a greater hold to conspiracies, and promotes the underdog.

    In a simplified, people back then did great things, people now talk about great things.
     
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