So it happened... again.

  • Using yahoo mail? Some of you have been flagging us as spam, hence mails sent to a yahoo email account will no longer be delivered for an undisclosed time. Please consider using a different email host if you really need those emails.

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#41
Mental gymnastics? Considering your the one equating weapon ownership and television - or the lack there of - to slavery, is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard of. It isn't even indentured servitude. Hell! By your logic the vast majority of the world exists as slaves. Which honestly there is no actual logic in your point of view. And the whole idea of you using your guns to protect our freedom is complete garbage.

An M1A2 Abrams is barreling down upon your neighborhood to oppress your rights and freedoms, which of your guns is going to stop the tyranny of the government? What the hell if your antitank plan? Whats your defense against the governemnt deciding to make an example out of your hometown by leveling it with a cruise missle strike?

If you don't have a counter measure for the reality of modern warefare than what you have is a power fantasy, and nothing else. And frankly NOBODY with any sense of reason cares about your fantasies. Because truth be told, your guns aren't making us safer. They've lead to a higher murder rate. To over 200 mass shootings this year by the FBI's definition, and a net loss of life nearing 40,000 people. And that is with some kind of regulation in place.

Your idea of a perfect anarchist society without government would literally never work. People like the Manson family, Jeffery Dahmer and other prolific serial killers would still be out there. Hell half the technological advances you've enjoyed wouldn't exist since much of it is funded in part, or in full, through taxes collected by thr government. The fact you and I are having this conversation is only possible through the progress of civilization - which is made possible by having a functioning, though not anywhere close to perfect government. Why? Because the advancement of society has allowed us more leisure time than our ancestors.

So lets roll back to your point on slavery: so the UK is full of slaves because they have a higher rated healthcare system than us, less chance of being brutally murdered and a lower suicide rate? Thats not slavery. Try talking to someone from the UK, or better yet actually go there. Get some experience. And while you are at it try brushing up on what slavery actually is

Everything you've stated has been opinion and conjecture, with a splash of fantasy thrown in. I mean your entire argument boils down to "I have guns and think I should have them, therefore I should have them". Its circular reasoning at its finest. I mean not only do you lack anything to back up your claims but your own opinion, you haven't any logic or hell even philosophy. I mean you could kind of make a case here through Nietzsche's philosophy because his belief in a "will to power", and a gun makes powerful the most cowardly of men as well as the strongest. You could argue it helps balance those who have no power against those who could.

It would still, ultimately, be a short sighted and more importantly a misinterpretation of philosophy, but at least it would have some reasoning behind it. But! No. Instead we get your armchair philosophy and clear misunderstanding of a lot of complex - and not so complex subjects.

To put it blunty, everything you've said has been complete and utter... 《click here》. Because for the record repetition of your points doesn't make you right. Being loudest and wrong still makes you wrong. And choosing to ignore when I litterally go point by point on why you aren't just wrong, but so far removed from logic I'm surprised your fursona isn't the Mad Hatter, doesn't make you right.

Nothing you said has been based on anything substantial or factual, and frankly I'd be surprised if you could actually provide me any substantiated facts because at this point I'm not even certain you understand how the world works, or that opinions do not equal facts.
Slavery through complacency is still slavery.

Yes because the Vietnam war and the Middle East went so well.

Actually, no, they haven't. So yeah. If you actually did your research, you'd know that.

It would, but people are too afraid to fend for themselves and require governments to nanny them. Follow the non aggression principle and privatize.

Socialism is your counter argument? Nah, fam. Taxation is theft, no matter how you justify it.

Was there a point to this? Because I didn't see any.

Yeah well, post your opinions, you're gonna get differing opinions back. That's how debate works.

Cute. Wrong, but cute.

Also wrong, but not cute. Your counter arguments have been based on your own definition of slavery, to negate the points I'm making. Now unless you actually have something to contribute to this argument, this is gonna go in circles, so I'd suggest we just let this die.
 

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#42
Tyrannical government? Um you clearly haven't a first clue about Britain, and I can speak from first hand knowledge as I live in the UK.
What you are doing is just painting a bad an inaccurate image and by all accounts, its very sick and twisted to do such a thing.

For one, we are as free as any other country thank you very much. If you look at your facts the reason why knife and guns are regulated is because of a rise in knife crimes, so they regulate for the public's protection.

If you want to debate what goes on then feel free to take it up with me, I'd be happy to set you straight on facts.
Complacency to your slavery, doesn't make it not slavery.

Free? No, it's an illusion of freedom. And Knife crimes? Fucking hysterical. I don't buy that bullshit at all. It's just a reason to harass citizens and steal their property under the illusion of 'safety'. The public needs to be responsible for it's own protection.

Haven't presented any facts yet, fam. Just opinions.
 
23 July 2019
168
16
18
34
Where my feet take me
Species
Indeterminable
Relationship status
Unspoken
Gender
Male
#43
Slavery through complacency is still slavery.

Yes because the Vietnam war and the Middle East went so well.

Actually, no, they haven't. So yeah. If you actually did your research, you'd know that.

It would, but people are too afraid to fend for themselves and require governments to nanny them. Follow the non aggression principle and privatize.

Socialism is your counter argument? Nah, fam. Taxation is theft, no matter how you justify it.

Was there a point to this? Because I didn't see any.

Yeah well, post your opinions, you're gonna get differing opinions back. That's how debate works.

Cute. Wrong, but cute.

Also wrong, but not cute. Your counter arguments have been based on your own definition of slavery, to negate the points I'm making. Now unless you actually have something to contribute to this argument, this is gonna go in circles, so I'd suggest we just let this die.
Um... my definition of slavery is actually the legal definition of slavery. So it isn't based on my opinion. I also couldn't help but notice you didn't acknowledge the british folk. Also! I've presented a lot of facts, and numbers and sourced to back them. Seriously click the links and check them for yourself. Or continue to disregard them and pretend you are making any kind of sense.
 

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#44
Um... my definition of slavery is actually the legal definition of slavery. So it isn't based on my opinion. I also couldn't help but notice you didn't acknowledge the british folk. Also! I've presented a lot of facts, and numbers and sourced to back them. Seriously click the links and check them for yourself. Or continue to disregard them and pretend you are making any kind of sense.
I don't trust the government to define slavery. I don't trust the government at all. I did, pay attention. And I did look at the 'facts' which seem to consist of cherry picked data from unreliable sources. Vox? Washington Post? Yeah, they are all antigun. Don't trust government statistics either. It's like expecting a liar to tell the truth. So present some better sources, then we'll get somewhere. Maybe. I do make sense. Just not to you apparently, or maybe you're pretending I don't because you are so set in your ways. I used to be like you, then I grew up and thought for myself. I took personal accountability. It's called being an adult. But, yeah, don't bother replying unless you've got some more credible sources.
 
23 July 2019
168
16
18
34
Where my feet take me
Species
Indeterminable
Relationship status
Unspoken
Gender
Male
#45
I don't trust the government to define slavery. I don't trust the government at all. I did, pay attention. And I did look at the 'facts' which seem to consist of cherry picked data from unreliable sources. Vox? Washington Post? Yeah, they are all antigun. Don't trust government statistics either. It's like expecting a liar to tell the truth. So present some better sources, then we'll get somewhere. Maybe. I do make sense. Just not to you apparently, or maybe you're pretending I don't because you are so set in your ways. I used to be like you, then I grew up and thought for myself. I took personal accountability. It's called being an adult. But, yeah, don't bother replying unless you've got some more credible sources.
So provide evidence or proof to the contrary. Find a source to refute the 250 school shootings we've had in the last 19 years. Prove that the United Kingdom has in fact had a school shooting in the last 22 years. Because right now they haven't had one since 1996. Unless you can somehow prove that isn't true?

Because if you can't my point stands; they are in fact a country far safer than our own.
 

Tygriss

Active Member
20 April 2018
222
25
28
33
tygriss.sofurry.com
Species
Tiger anthro
Gender
Female
#46
Complacency to your slavery, doesn't make it not slavery.

Free? No, it's an illusion of freedom. And Knife crimes? Fucking hysterical. I don't buy that bullshit at all. It's just a reason to harass citizens and steal their property under the illusion of 'safety'. The public needs to be responsible for it's own protection.

Haven't presented any facts yet, fam. Just opinions.
...Its idiots like you that ruin the world you know that? You even know what slavery is? It means you have no freedom.
We are free to do say what we will, earn money, have rights, all you care about is guns because not having a gun scares you, so you sink to insulting others and throwing around your biased opinion. PLus, you never even asked for facts. Its pathetic.

On top of that lets think, can you state your opinion freely here and not have to watch your tongue? Yes! Can you say what you will and have it aired in America? No! So who's really free hmm? Your idea of freedom is biased, based on guns and violence which makes a situation worse, and ignorance.
 

Alenicia

~ Gold Edition Delight ~
3 October 2016
209
22
18
26
Wisconsin
Species
Dragon
#47
I do make sense. Just not to you apparently, or maybe you're pretending I don't because you are so set in your ways.
This is the completely wrong kind of attitude to take into any sort of discussion because you are not helping yourself or your position. If you wanted me to be specific, your "arguments" rely on the "argument from ignorance" or what is also known as the negative proof fallacy. As it is so far, you really do have yet to actually provide your own sources and your own support and are still dismissing and attempting to refute everything else being thrown at you.

And speaking of cherry-picked sources, is your definition of slavery also cherry-picked to be the most vague form of any "submission to a dominating influence?"

I don't think the point of throwing sources out is to be able to have someone simply say "that's wrong" or "they're biased." Everyone and everything is biased and you'll likely never actually see something unbiased because everyone has an agenda of some sort. What matters more is being able to read between the lines and being able to connect the dots. Sources aren't meant to just be pillars that you can hide behind once you find them as much as it is you are capable of drawing them out and using them in support of a statement that you are willing to make. That applies to the other Wraith as well who dismissed sources and citations as something for an "English" paper.

If you aren't able to provide your own sources and can respond back only in hostility and ignorance then it does make sense to me that we're not pretending that you aren't making sense because you really aren't.
 

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#48
...Its idiots like you that ruin the world you know that? You even know what slavery is? It means you have no freedom.
We are free to do say what we will, earn money, have rights, all you care about is guns because not having a gun scares you, so you sink to insulting others and throwing around your biased opinion. PLus, you never even asked for facts. Its pathetic.

On top of that lets think, can you state your opinion freely here and not have to watch your tongue? Yes! Can you say what you will and have it aired in America? No! So who's really free hmm? Your idea of freedom is biased, based on guns and violence which makes a situation worse, and ignorance.


That's a very naive way of coming to a conclusion. It's not been about guns, but simply not letting yourself be controlled by others. Y'all keep having preconceived notions of what I believe and why, but it seems like more often then not, you're wrong, then relocate the goalposts. I've seen enough facts about the UK to know that it's not as free as they like you to think. If you think I'm ruining the world, try looking in the mirror.

I can do that here too. You guys keep thinking this is America vs UK. No. It's about people fighting tyrannical governments. And y'all have cops arresting people for 'offensive' tweets. So if you think you're free, you have low requirements for freedom. My idea of freedom is one without a government and people taking personal responsibility for their actions, instead of blaming inanimate objects like children.
 

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#49
This is the completely wrong kind of attitude to take into any sort of discussion because you are not helping yourself or your position. If you wanted me to be specific, your "arguments" rely on the "argument from ignorance" or what is also known as the negative proof fallacy. As it is so far, you really do have yet to actually provide your own sources and your own support and are still dismissing and attempting to refute everything else being thrown at you.

And speaking of cherry-picked sources, is your definition of slavery also cherry-picked to be the most vague form of any "submission to a dominating influence?"

I don't think the point of throwing sources out is to be able to have someone simply say "that's wrong" or "they're biased." Everyone and everything is biased and you'll likely never actually see something unbiased because everyone has an agenda of some sort. What matters more is being able to read between the lines and being able to connect the dots. Sources aren't meant to just be pillars that you can hide behind once you find them as much as it is you are capable of drawing them out and using them in support of a statement that you are willing to make. That applies to the other Wraith as well who dismissed sources and citations as something for an "English" paper.

If you aren't able to provide your own sources and can respond back only in hostility and ignorance then it does make sense to me that we're not pretending that you aren't making sense because you really aren't.

You can't convince a brick wall to move with words.

Slavery is defined as submitting to non consensual theft and restriction of rights.

I connected the dots. The government is always the problem, and I've seen enough to not be convinced otherwise. The problem is that you guys seem to refuse to accept that someone can be vehemently anti government. I simply don't like being told what to do by some asshole that doesn't sign my paycheck. Frankly put, I don't care how many people die because of whatever contrived excuse people want to blame. It's like parents blaming Columbine on Doom, when they neglected to pay attention to their kids. I don't care how many get killed. Rights are more important to me, because a life enslaved is no life worth living. Not to say that I don't care about human lives, but what happens in Texas or UK Or Africa Or China or Wherever, should NEVER affect ANYONE'S rights. Right to free speech. Right to protect yourself and your property. The Right to happiness, As long as the NAP (Non Aggreassion Principle) is followed, so fucking what? It's none of your goddamn business what I own or want to own, as long as I'm not stealing, damaging or causing harm to someone else or their property.
 
Last edited:
27 October 2018
15
4
3
46
Yorkshire England Gods own county
Species
dragon
Gender
Male
#50
To iterate again we are not slaves .
I've seen enough facts about the UK to know that it's not as free as they like you to think
Ahh what facts and what would we like you to think? Do you think? From here it looks like stimulus response . Some one says its bad that you have had yet another mass shooting . Your response seems to be that you must endure these needless and pointless deaths to be free. I know that freedom cost lives but that is generally when at war with other nations and not yourselves.
 

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#51
To iterate again we are not slaves .


Ahh what facts and what would we like you to think? Do you think? From here it looks like stimulus response . Some one says its bad that you have had yet another mass shooting . Your response seems to be that you must endure these needless and pointless deaths to be free. I know that freedom cost lives but that is generally when at war with other nations and not yourselves.
Yes you are, just haven't realized it yet. To be fair, most Americans are slaves too, and are too complacent to realize it.

Varying reports about what goes on in the UK, from people who live there and articles. And yes, that's my point. Remember machine guns were legal in the early 1900s, yet there wasn't any school shootings back then. It's not the guns. It was never the guns, it was a deeper and deeper infringing government, lack of proper parenting, mental health issues, government incompetence. Gun control is an emotional band aid on a bleeding jugular. It won't do shit.
 
27 October 2018
15
4
3
46
Yorkshire England Gods own county
Species
dragon
Gender
Male
#52
earliest school shooting in America 1764 but don't let finding out facts bother you and forgive me for using the English definition of Slavery , the one we all legally abide by . If you have a different one bully for you but by my definition and that held by the majority I am not a Slave.
 

wraith138

Active Member
3 October 2016
890
108
43
27
Louisiana
Species
SpottedHyena
Gender
Male
#53
earliest school shooting in America 1764 but don't let finding out facts bother you and forgive me for using the English definition of Slavery , the one we all legally abide by . If you have a different one bully for you but by my definition and that held by the majority I am not a Slave.
Source? And you can use whatever you like. That's your right.
 
23 July 2019
168
16
18
34
Where my feet take me
Species
Indeterminable
Relationship status
Unspoken
Gender
Male
#57
Nice try, and while it counts in technical sense, that's an Indian Rebellion, not a mass shooting.
November 2, 1853 Louisville, Kentucky A student, Matthew Ward, bought a self-cocking pistol in the morning, went to school and killed Schoolmaster Mr. Butler for excessively punishing his brother the day before. Even though he shot the Schoolmaster point blank in front of his classmates, he was acquitted.

An April 30, 1866 editorial in the New York Times argued against students carrying pistols, citing "...pistols being dropped on the floor at balls or being exploded in very inconvenient ways. A boy of 12 has his pantaloons made with a pistol pocket; and this at a boarding-school filled with boys, who, we suppose, do or wish to do the same thing. We would advise parents to look into it, and learn whether shooting is to be a part of the scholastic course which may be practiced on their boys; or else we advise them to see that their own boys are properly armed with the most approved and deadly-pistol, and that there may be an equal chance at least of their shooting as of being shot."

• June 8, 1867 New York City At Public School No. 18, a 13 year old lad brought a pistol loaded and capped, without the knowledge of his parents or school-teachers, and shot and injured a fellow classmate.

• December 22, 1868 Chattanooga, Tennessee A boy who refused to be whipped and left school, returned with his brother and a friend, the next day to seek revenge on his teacher. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle rang out, leaving three dead. Only the brother survived.

• March 9, 1873 Salisbury, Maryland After school as Miss Shockley was walking with four small children, she was approached by a Mr. Hall and shot. The Schoolmaster ran out, but she was dead instantly. Hall threw himself under a train that night.

• May 24, 1879 Lancaster, New York As the carriage loaded with female students was pulling out of the school's stables, Frank Shugart a telegraph operator shot and severely injured Mr. Carr, Superintendent of the stables.

• March 6, 1884 Boston, Massachusetts As news of Jesse James reached the east coast, young kids started to act in the same manner. An article from the New York Times reads, "Another "Jesse James" Gang - "Word was brought to the Fifth Police Station to-night that a number of boys were using the Concord-street School-house for some unknown purpose, and a posse of officers was sent to investigate. The gang scattered at the approach of the police, and in their flight on drew a revolver and fired at Officer Rowan, without effect, however. William Nangle, age 14, and Sidney Duncan, age 12, were captured, but the other five or six escaped, among them the one who who did the shooting. The boys refused to disclose the object of their meeting, but it is thought that another "Jesse James" organization has been broken up."

• March 15, 1884 Gainsville, Georgia In the middle of the day, a group of very drunk Jackson County farmers left the Jug Tavern drinking and shooting their revolvers as they headed down the street driving people into their homes. As they approached the female academy, the girls fled the schoolyard into the school where the gang followed swearing and shooting, firing several rounds into the front door. No one was hurt.

• July 4, 1886 Charleston, South Carolina During Sunday school, Emma Connelly shot and killed John Steedley for "circulating slanderous reports" about her, even though her brother publicly whipped him a few days earlier.

• April 12, 1887 Watertown, New York Edwin Bush, a student a the Potsdam Normal School committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

• June 12, 1887 Cleveland, Tennessee Will Guess went to the school and fatally shot Miss Irene Fann, his little sister's teacher, for whipping her the day before.

• June 13, 1889 New Brunswick, New Jersey Charles Crawford upset over an argument with a school Trustee, went up to the window and fired a pistol into a crowded school room. The bullet lodged in the wall just above the teacher's head.

The first known mass shooting in the U.S. where students were shot, was on April 9, 1891, when 70 year old, James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary's Parochial School, Newburgh, New York, causing minor injuries to several of the students. The majority of attacks during this time period by students on other students or teacher, usually involved stabbing with knives, or hitting with stones.

-----------

Is that more agreeable? Already posted the source above. Also you said there were "no school shootings" not no "mass shootings". So! First mass shooting at a school is usually defined as 1891, still before your supposed year of 1900. And all of which pale in comparison to what one man pulled off in Bath, Michigan. Again, check the links.
 
23 July 2019
168
16
18
34
Where my feet take me
Species
Indeterminable
Relationship status
Unspoken
Gender
Male
#60
It does, but like gun control wouldn't have stopped that, so yeah.
Yes, but the us has had 250 school shootings since the year 2000, and the UK has has ZERO school shootings since the year 1996, which was when they started passing more strict gun control. So, we can safely say that yes the evidence supports gun regulations help prevent gun violence.

Hell even Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996, and that was the year their first buyback/ban. Links are in earlier posts if you are so inclined to check my sources.

So yes, gun regulation works to reduce violence. Unless you have some alternative source to prove otherwise? Like an actual source and not "whataboutism" or your personal opinions on freedom and slavery.

Also! I would love to know where you got your definition of slavery. And again, your opinions don't count as a source. Because again, it is neither the dictionary or legal definition of slavery. So from where does it come? And no. You can't say its what "I believe" and it isn't common sense either. So! Where is it defined as such? I'm quite interested in looking into it.